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Unread 24-11-2015, 14:42   #1
ThomasJ
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Default Timetable consultation for DART/commuter 2016 now online

can be found here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/public-...muter-services

changes include:

19:00hrs connolly rosslare

19:15hrs connolly sligo
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Unread 24-11-2015, 15:26   #2
Mark Gleeson
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It is sadly a return to the chaotic timetable of the past. Clockface has be junked on Sligo and Rosslare

Still can't get into Dublin before 9am on a Sunday
No improvement in late evening departures
The morning Rosslare Dundalk now arrives Pearse too late for a 9am start
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Unread 24-11-2015, 15:38   #3
shweeney
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also extra 3-5 minutes running time on most Darts (why?), and the 0800 from Greystones is pushed back to 0804 making it useless for many commuters with a 9am start (this is the busiest train on the network).
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Unread 24-11-2015, 16:38   #4
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I didn't see this thread when I posted the following on the Enterprise refurbishment thread. It's more relevant here:

The draft timetable may show more even departure intervals for the Enterprise, but the trains are mostly slower: nothing shorter than 2h 15m. The new early departure from Belfast takes 2h 26 mins.

What's driving this is the new 10-minute interval DART service, which seems to slow everything up. I know that this really needs a new thread, but the Rosslare times have really gone to hell, and the Bray-Howth darts are generally about 75 minutes (remember when they took just 60?).

So you have to wait about 5 minutes less for a DART, and then finds it takes maybe 5 to 10 minutes longer to make the journey. Brilliant! Only on Irish Rail.....
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Unread 24-11-2015, 18:54   #5
Inniskeen
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What a spectacular downgrade for just about everbody except DART users. If this disaster of a timetable is implemented most Connolly rail services will become a near irrelevance for Inter-City and longer distance commuters. There may well be some extra off peak DART passengers but many people who have other options will simply walk away from this hugely unattractive timetable.

Pay more, spend longer to get there and by the way the chances of this thing working reliably are next to nil.

Can't see myself renewing my very expensive annual ticket for this pathetic offering, far worse than I expected.
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Unread 24-11-2015, 19:04   #6
Jamie2k9
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Sligo
So a new 07.30/09.30 M-F replaces 08.00 and 16.00 services. While I accept the 16.00 is not needed neither is an 07.30/09.30 service out of Connolly as the simple reason was in 2013 they were scrapped because of no demand and nothing has changes. The 07.30 will now operate the 11.00 up. Surly it would make more sense for the 08.00 to remain and stick a 7 coach on either the 15.35/19.15 instead and work the 11.00 that way. There is the "service in balance" argument however the reality is it does not matter once demand is been meet. It is a complete waste restoring morning service ex Connolly. Running the 16.10 everyday instead would make more sense or even push it to 16.35 and ease the 17.05 service instead of a 07.30 service. Only reason I can think of is 3 coaches wouldn't be enough for 11.00 up.

Journey times appear way to excessive for:
14.05 takes 3h28m
16.10 FO takes 3h35m

13.00 to Dublin drops Enfield.

Belfast
Good to see a much improved scheduling for this service despite a journey times been longer on a few.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 24-11-2015 at 19:34.
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Unread 24-11-2015, 20:51   #7
shweeney
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will RUI be making a submission on this?
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Unread 24-11-2015, 21:40   #8
James Howard
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My main concern is Sligo so I haven't really looked at anything else. They've made a right mess of the departure times - all in the interest of the DART users I suppose. But specifically, I see a big issue with the 1705 service leaving Connolly to go behind a 1700 Docklands departure. This will never have the slightest hope of being on-time.

The 1915 will be positive if they've delayed this to avoid the 10 minute wait every evening at Killucan crossing with the 1800 from Sligo. Otherwise, it'll just be another 10 minutes gone from everyone's day.

The big problem is the 0545 to Dublin moving 10 minutes earlier without a significant change to the arrival time. We can also only hope that they might change the evening down Longford fast service to a 22k which would mean I could avoid the 1915.
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Unread 24-11-2015, 22:21   #9
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Dublin-Gorey-Rosslare is a joke. Journey times are 1hr50 plus minutes. Fares are expensive for longer times and few trains. A complete joke, I haven't took the train in some years now do not see the advantage to it VS bus 19.50 Gorey Dublin return 1hr20 quicker and nearly 10 cheaper with four times more services than IRISH rail.
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Unread 24-11-2015, 22:22   #10
Padna
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The changes to the Dublin-Belfast timetable should make the Enterprise service more attractive for commuters, especially cross-border commuters. Those travelling into Dublin will be able to arrive at 0841 (current equivalent 0904) and depart at 1710 (current equivalent 1650), which will be more closely aligned with the traditional 0900 to 1700 working day. For those travelling into Belfast a 0925 arrival, although still a bit on the late side, is a lot better than the current 0945 arrival. The peak evening departure will still be at 1805, so this would suit anyone who could work from say 0945 to 1745.
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Unread 24-11-2015, 22:45   #11
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I would imagine that the 1710 to Belfast will be very overcrowded as most of the few remaining Dundalk commuters will try to get this train to avoid the miserably unattractive journey times on later services.
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Unread 24-11-2015, 22:54   #12
MaryC
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17:13 train from Pearse now leaves from Connolly or am I mistaken. Are they nuts. That train is full leaving Pearse and the 17:07 to Balbriggan from Connolly is gone. That was another full train. So if you could make Connolly by 17:12 it's going to be crazy. For those of you who cannot make it, you have to wait till 17:23. So on top of the extra time it's going to take in the morning (trains leaving earlier and getting in later) its going to work out an hour exta a week from leaving home to getting back in the evening. It's a crazy schedule. It's time to start looking at other commuting options.
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Unread 25-11-2015, 10:46   #13
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More on just how bad these proposals are:

1. The 10-minute fixed-interval DART service. This apparently applies throughout the day. Fine for peak hours but what about mid-morning or early afternoon, never mind later at night? The LUAS does not attempt anything like this: tram intervals range for 3 to 4 minutes at the morning peak to 7 or 8 minutes late morning etc. It must be hugely uneconomic in the off-peak hours to operate a peak-hour service.

2. The slower journey times. OK these are probably a consequence of the 10-minute DARTS, but there is a huge paradox in operating slower trains which reduce line capacity (because by definition they increase time spent in block sections) when the most acute problem is inadequate headway between trains.

Are they stuck with this 10-minute stuff because of some funding arrangement on service levels with the NTA? How slow will things be then the Park Tunnel trains start operating to Connolly?
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Unread 25-11-2015, 11:26   #14
James Shields
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I think there are some good things. The northern line commuter trains seem to have better spacing, and they no longer serve Portmarnock or Clongriffin, which takes a couple of minutes off journey times.

I can see the earlier morning Enterprise being a huge hit with commuters, and overcrowding seems inevitable. Would there be a case for making the extra commuter train serving just Dundalk/Drogheda/Connolly that's been running ahead of it during the refurbishment a permanent fixture?

James
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Unread 25-11-2015, 11:35   #15
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
1. The 10-minute fixed-interval DART service. This apparently applies throughout the day. Fine for peak hours but what about mid-morning or early afternoon, never mind later at night? The LUAS does not attempt anything like this: tram intervals range for 3 to 4 minutes at the morning peak to 7 or 8 minutes late morning etc. It must be hugely uneconomic in the off-peak hours to operate a peak-hour service.
Luas ranges up to 15-20 minutes before close of service, kicks in after 21.00 ish and early morning.

I think it's safe to say it will be 2 coach DARTS off peak and all 4 coach at peak times perhaps. The 10 minute freq is not remotely sustainable after 8pm or before 7am.

It's another ego boost just like the successful 06.15 out of Cork

Anyone able to see what slots have been left for Kildare-GCD?
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Unread 25-11-2015, 11:46   #16
shweeney
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who benefits from the extra frequency - whilst I like the idea of "turn up and go" most regular commuters get the same train every day - they will now need to get an earlier train to arrive at the same time because of the increased running time.

Irish Rail in the papers today admitting the slower Darts and saying this is a consequence of the increased frequency, but this still doesn't make sense to me - where is the time being lost, dwell times should reduce if anything (and they're already very leisurely).
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Unread 25-11-2015, 13:10   #17
Mark Gleeson
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The frequency excuse doesn't match, 70 minutes end to end is more than enough

Every minute saved on a DART is a minute saved on a commuter/intercity trip also

Pre 7am and post 10pm there is no justification for 10 minute service, could use the money saved by running 15 minutes interval here to provide the long sought after later services on DART and on Maynooth on a Sunday
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Unread 25-11-2015, 13:28   #18
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryC View Post
17:13 train from Pearse now leaves from Connolly or am I mistaken. Are they nuts. That train is full leaving Pearse and the 17:07 to Balbriggan from Connolly is gone. That was another full train. So if you could make Connolly by 17:12 it's going to be crazy. For those of you who cannot make it, you have to wait till 17:23. So on top of the extra time it's going to take in the morning (trains leaving earlier and getting in later) its going to work out an hour exta a week from leaving home to getting back in the evening. It's a crazy schedule. It's time to start looking at other commuting options.
To answer your questions, as far as I can figure out the new timetable proposes:

Deferring the 16:14 Pearse-Drogheda to 16:23
Deferring the 16:44 Pearse-Drogheda to 16:53
Deferring the 16:50 Connolly-Belfast to 17:10
Deferring the 17:07 Connolly-Balbriggan to 17:12
Deferring the 17:13 Pearse-Dundalk to 17:28
Deferring the 17:28 Pearse-Drogheda to 17:43
Deferring the 17:55 Pearse-Dundalk to 18:03
Deferring the 18:15 Pearse-Drogheda to 18:23

Last edited by berneyarms : 25-11-2015 at 14:48.
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Unread 25-11-2015, 14:58   #19
James Shields
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Looking a little deeper, the early morning Enterprise leaves Drogheda 07:54 and arrives 08:41, taking 47 minutes.

There's also a non-stop commuter train at 08:20 arriving at 09:09 - 49 minutes.

The rest of the Enterprise services running between Connolly and Drogheda take between 36 and 39 minutes. On the current timetable most take 30 to 35 minutes, and when I first moved to Drogheda there were a few that did it in 25 minutes!

James
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Unread 25-11-2015, 15:27   #20
Mark Gleeson
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Connolly Drogheda I think got to 27 minutes at best in the very early days, only a 22k/C3K could really do that. 30 miles from a standing start with the first mile at 20mph and 4 miles at 70, then a brief 90 before 50 through Malahide.


There is some fun and games, the 16:53 Pearse Drogheda is overtaken by the 1710 to Belfast between Skerries and Ballbriggan

Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 25-11-2015 at 15:33.
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