Timetable consultation for DART/commuter 2016 now online

shweeney · 24-11-2015, 20:51

will RUI be making a submission on this?

James Howard · 24-11-2015, 21:40

My main concern is Sligo so I haven't really looked at anything else. They've made a right mess of the departure times - all in the interest of the DART users I suppose. But specifically, I see a big issue with the 1705 service leaving Connolly to go behind a 1700 Docklands departure. This will never have the slightest hope of being on-time.

The 1915 will be positive if they've delayed this to avoid the 10 minute wait every evening at Killucan crossing with the 1800 from Sligo. Otherwise, it'll just be another 10 minutes gone from everyone's day.

The big problem is the 0545 to Dublin moving 10 minutes earlier without a significant change to the arrival time. We can also only hope that they might change the evening down Longford fast service to a 22k which would mean I could avoid the 1915.

KSW · 24-11-2015, 22:21

Dublin-Gorey-Rosslare is a joke. Journey times are 1hr50 plus minutes. Fares are expensive for longer times and few trains. A complete joke, I haven't took the train in some years now do not see the advantage to it VS bus €19.50 Gorey Dublin return 1hr20 quicker and nearly €10 cheaper with four times more services than IRISH rail.

Padna · 24-11-2015, 22:22

The changes to the Dublin-Belfast timetable should make the Enterprise service more attractive for commuters, especially cross-border commuters. Those travelling into Dublin will be able to arrive at 0841 (current equivalent 0904) and depart at 1710 (current equivalent 1650), which will be more closely aligned with the traditional 0900 to 1700 working day. For those travelling into Belfast a 0925 arrival, although still a bit on the late side, is a lot better than the current 0945 arrival. The peak evening departure will still be at 1805, so this would suit anyone who could work from say 0945 to 1745.

Inniskeen · 24-11-2015, 22:45

I would imagine that the 1710 to Belfast will be very overcrowded as most of the few remaining Dundalk commuters will try to get this train to avoid the miserably unattractive journey times on later services.

MaryC · 24-11-2015, 22:54

17:13 train from Pearse now leaves from Connolly

or am I mistaken. Are they nuts. That train is full leaving Pearse and the 17:07 to Balbriggan from Connolly is gone. That was another full train. So if you could make Connolly by 17:12 it's going to be crazy. For those of you who cannot make it, you have to wait till 17:23. So on top of the extra time it's going to take in the morning (trains leaving earlier and getting in later) its going to work out an hour exta a week from leaving home to getting back in the evening. It's a crazy schedule. It's time to start looking at other commuting options.

ACustomer · 25-11-2015, 10:46

More on just how bad these proposals are:

1. The 10-minute fixed-interval DART service. This apparently applies throughout the day. Fine for peak hours but what about mid-morning or early afternoon, never mind later at night? The LUAS does not attempt anything like this: tram intervals range for 3 to 4 minutes at the morning peak to 7 or 8 minutes late morning etc. It must be hugely uneconomic in the off-peak hours to operate a peak-hour service.

2. The slower journey times. OK these are probably a consequence of the 10-minute DARTS, but there is a huge paradox in operating slower trains which reduce line capacity (because by definition they increase time spent in block sections) when the most acute problem is inadequate headway between trains.

Are they stuck with this 10-minute stuff because of some funding arrangement on service levels with the NTA? How slow will things be then the Park Tunnel trains start operating to Connolly?

James Shields · 25-11-2015, 11:26

I think there are some good things. The northern line commuter trains seem to have better spacing, and they no longer serve Portmarnock or Clongriffin, which takes a couple of minutes off journey times.

I can see the earlier morning Enterprise being a huge hit with commuters, and overcrowding seems inevitable. Would there be a case for making the extra commuter train serving just Dundalk/Drogheda/Connolly that's been running ahead of it during the refurbishment a permanent fixture?

James

Jamie2k9 · 25-11-2015, 11:35

Quote:

1. The 10-minute fixed-interval DART service. This apparently applies throughout the day. Fine for peak hours but what about mid-morning or early afternoon, never mind later at night? The LUAS does not attempt anything like this: tram intervals range for 3 to 4 minutes at the morning peak to 7 or 8 minutes late morning etc. It must be hugely uneconomic in the off-peak hours to operate a peak-hour service.

Luas ranges up to 15-20 minutes before close of service, kicks in after 21.00 ish and early morning.

I think it's safe to say it will be 2 coach DARTS off peak and all 4 coach at peak times perhaps. The 10 minute freq is not remotely sustainable after 8pm or before 7am.

It's another ego boost just like the successful 06.15 out of Cork

Anyone able to see what slots have been left for Kildare-GCD?

shweeney · 25-11-2015, 11:46

who benefits from the extra frequency - whilst I like the idea of "turn up and go" most regular commuters get the same train every day - they will now need to get an earlier train to arrive at the same time because of the increased running time.

Irish Rail in the papers today admitting the slower Darts and saying this is a consequence of the increased frequency, but this still doesn't make sense to me - where is the time being lost, dwell times should reduce if anything (and they're already very leisurely).

berneyarms · 25-11-2015, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaryC

17:13 train from Pearse now leaves from Connolly

or am I mistaken. Are they nuts. That train is full leaving Pearse and the 17:07 to Balbriggan from Connolly is gone. That was another full train. So if you could make Connolly by 17:12 it's going to be crazy. For those of you who cannot make it, you have to wait till 17:23. So on top of the extra time it's going to take in the morning (trains leaving earlier and getting in later) its going to work out an hour exta a week from leaving home to getting back in the evening. It's a crazy schedule. It's time to start looking at other commuting options.

To answer your questions, as far as I can figure out the new timetable proposes:

Deferring the 16:14 Pearse-Drogheda to 16:23
Deferring the 16:44 Pearse-Drogheda to 16:53
Deferring the 16:50 Connolly-Belfast to 17:10
Deferring the 17:07 Connolly-Balbriggan to 17:12
Deferring the 17:13 Pearse-Dundalk to 17:28
Deferring the 17:28 Pearse-Drogheda to 17:43
Deferring the 17:55 Pearse-Dundalk to 18:03
Deferring the 18:15 Pearse-Drogheda to 18:23

24-11-2015, 22:54	#6
MaryC New to the board Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 1	Dublin - Dundalk 17:13 train from Pearse now leaves from Connolly or am I mistaken. Are they nuts. That train is full leaving Pearse and the 17:07 to Balbriggan from Connolly is gone. That was another full train. So if you could make Connolly by 17:12 it's going to be crazy. For those of you who cannot make it, you have to wait till 17:23. So on top of the extra time it's going to take in the morning (trains leaving earlier and getting in later) its going to work out an hour exta a week from leaving home to getting back in the evening. It's a crazy schedule. It's time to start looking at other commuting options.

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24-11-2015, 20:51	#1
shweeney Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 180	will RUI be making a submission on this?

24-11-2015, 21:40	#2
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	My main concern is Sligo so I haven't really looked at anything else. They've made a right mess of the departure times - all in the interest of the DART users I suppose. But specifically, I see a big issue with the 1705 service leaving Connolly to go behind a 1700 Docklands departure. This will never have the slightest hope of being on-time. The 1915 will be positive if they've delayed this to avoid the 10 minute wait every evening at Killucan crossing with the 1800 from Sligo. Otherwise, it'll just be another 10 minutes gone from everyone's day. The big problem is the 0545 to Dublin moving 10 minutes earlier without a significant change to the arrival time. We can also only hope that they might change the evening down Longford fast service to a 22k which would mean I could avoid the 1915.

24-11-2015, 22:21	#3
KSW Really Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Rosslare Line Posts: 600	Dublin-Gorey-Rosslare is a joke. Journey times are 1hr50 plus minutes. Fares are expensive for longer times and few trains. A complete joke, I haven't took the train in some years now do not see the advantage to it VS bus €19.50 Gorey Dublin return 1hr20 quicker and nearly €10 cheaper with four times more services than IRISH rail.

24-11-2015, 22:22	#4
Padna Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 69	The changes to the Dublin-Belfast timetable should make the Enterprise service more attractive for commuters, especially cross-border commuters. Those travelling into Dublin will be able to arrive at 0841 (current equivalent 0904) and depart at 1710 (current equivalent 1650), which will be more closely aligned with the traditional 0900 to 1700 working day. For those travelling into Belfast a 0925 arrival, although still a bit on the late side, is a lot better than the current 0945 arrival. The peak evening departure will still be at 1805, so this would suit anyone who could work from say 0945 to 1745.

24-11-2015, 22:45	#5
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	I would imagine that the 1710 to Belfast will be very overcrowded as most of the few remaining Dundalk commuters will try to get this train to avoid the miserably unattractive journey times on later services.

25-11-2015, 10:46	#7
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	More on just how bad these proposals are: 1. The 10-minute fixed-interval DART service. This apparently applies throughout the day. Fine for peak hours but what about mid-morning or early afternoon, never mind later at night? The LUAS does not attempt anything like this: tram intervals range for 3 to 4 minutes at the morning peak to 7 or 8 minutes late morning etc. It must be hugely uneconomic in the off-peak hours to operate a peak-hour service. 2. The slower journey times. OK these are probably a consequence of the 10-minute DARTS, but there is a huge paradox in operating slower trains which reduce line capacity (because by definition they increase time spent in block sections) when the most acute problem is inadequate headway between trains. Are they stuck with this 10-minute stuff because of some funding arrangement on service levels with the NTA? How slow will things be then the Park Tunnel trains start operating to Connolly?

25-11-2015, 11:26	#8
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	I think there are some good things. The northern line commuter trains seem to have better spacing, and they no longer serve Portmarnock or Clongriffin, which takes a couple of minutes off journey times. I can see the earlier morning Enterprise being a huge hit with commuters, and overcrowding seems inevitable. Would there be a case for making the extra commuter train serving just Dundalk/Drogheda/Connolly that's been running ahead of it during the refurbishment a permanent fixture? James

25-11-2015, 11:46	#10
shweeney Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 180	who benefits from the extra frequency - whilst I like the idea of "turn up and go" most regular commuters get the same train every day - they will now need to get an earlier train to arrive at the same time because of the increased running time. Irish Rail in the papers today admitting the slower Darts and saying this is a consequence of the increased frequency, but this still doesn't make sense to me - where is the time being lost, dwell times should reduce if anything (and they're already very leisurely).