Northern line (Dublin) 2007 timetable issues

Derek Wheeler · 12-01-2007, 22:04

Below is a complaint received by P11 in relation to the Drogheda commuter line. I think it poses some interesting points.

Quote:

While there is a welcome improvement with one extra train in the morning and now all trains stop at all stations in the morning rush hour I am extremely mad about the unfair and unjustifiable bias towards Skerries, Balbriggan and Laytown for trains from town. Three extra trains between 17.13 and 20.25 from town serve these stations and not Rush & Lusk (or Donabate for that matter). During this period, Rush & Lusk gets five arrivals from town while Skerries gets eight. We see these trains as we wait at the stations and while there is no doubt that they are busy trains they have ample standing room while we are left to take trains that are so packed that would not pass for conditions of transporting livestock under EU law. Is this fair? What is this bias based on?

Some facts that you may find interesting from the CSO web sit and the results of the 2006 census.

• Skerries has a population of 8173.
• Laytown/Julianstown has a population of 8201.
• Rush (8293) and lusk (7017) has a population of 15,308.
• With a population 100% lager then the other two stations during peak hours the Rush and Lusk station receives only 60% of the trains that stop at the other stations.

How can this crazy situation continue? Demographics have greatly changed in the North County over the past ten years and while skerries was historically bigger this is no longer the case.

Many people feel the same as I do and I hope you maybe able to help the people of Rush and Lusk get the service they deserve not the current disservice we receive.

packetswitch · 12-01-2007, 22:25

What's the problem? The three trains in question all go non-stop to Skerries after leaving Connolly. Surely it's OK for some trains to go non-stop and some to call at each station? Limited-stop services are important in driving demand to more distant locations, as it gives (or should give!) a more favourable journey time...especially on slow-to-stop-and-start-again DMUs

I don't know the recent population increases around Rush and Lusk too well but it seems that just adding the population of two towns and assuming that should mean better service is a little imprecise when it comes to setting timetables. Passenger demand, not to mention the catchment area of the station (i.e. 5000 people in a town that extends a square mile from a station is different to 5000 people spread over ten square miles!) would be an issue here. The fact that the station is called "Rush and Lusk" and the census areas of the towns of Rush and Lusk add to a certain number doesn't, in and of itself, mean that there is enough demand to justify the change...IÉ says that Rush town is 2 miles from the station, so it's optimistic naming anyway...

On the other hand, the 1713 does stop at all stations on Saturdays so maybe that one could try an all-stop service on weekdays and see what impact it has? Surely worth a try?

Colm Moore · 13-01-2007, 04:40

Of note, "nobody" lives at Rush-Lusk Station whereas Skerries Station, actually is in Skerries.

Rashers · 13-01-2007, 09:27

That service must be one of the most crowded services on the network. Unless the 1650 Connolly-Belfast, which now calls at Dundalk, relieves some of the pressure off the 1713 service, I think stopping the 1713 at any more stations would just make things worse. It might mean that Dundalk/Drogheda passengers would simply not get on the service at Connolly.
I would like to see some northbound services terminate at the likes of Skerries (which has a working siding), and head back into town (possibly empty, or as an express) for the evening peak to relieve some of the pressure.
The 1707 ex Connolly terminates at Balbriggan @ 1745. This forms the 1807 Balbriggan to Pearse arriving it at 18.49. If they did something similar with an earlier service, say around 1650 ex Connolly (I know it would clash with the Belfast Enterprise), and cut the turnaround time (from the exisiting 22 mins to 5 mins), this could lead to the service arriving back into Pearse @ 18.15, which catches the tail end of the evening peak.
It's the usual supply situation - A Pearse to Drogheda service is 50% empty by Balbriggan (note: this may still mean every seat is taken). If you terminated this service there, ran it back into town, he might help relieve the overcrowding on the peak services.
However, I think on this one, IE are in a bit of a no win situation. Until someone can press IE to extend the DART to Balbriggan, ahead of the interconnector being built, this problem will only worsen.

Mark Gleeson · 13-01-2007, 10:14

The 17:13 is already so overcrowed that IE added a few years back the 17:07 which does call at Rush & Lusk as well as Donabate. So not really a issue if a train is already full to the point its horribly overcrowded it would result in a even worse experience for the 1250 on that train, given a separate train is provided no justification can be made since it would be contrary to the passenger interest

Trains are already overcrowded and short running of train doesn't help since Ballbriggan is the turnback you can't get the train back in time to make another useful trip

The only othernorthern line outbound trains which don't call at Rush and Lusk can't call since there is a enterprise talling them or you could stop everywhere and park in Skerries for 10 minutes to allow the enterprise to pass, thats 2 out 25+ trains making 3 in total

stanley · 13-01-2007, 16:28

Could you explain to me what differance you all hope the DART will give.on the northern line.
At present the line is similar to Connolly-Pearse it is fast runnig out of space and also look athe kildare route they now need a seconftrack.

Second and I am open to correction.But the last time i looked the power for a dart it came from the roof throught the OHLE with the rail car it came from an engine under the carriage.No major jump in space on board.Yes i hear all the debate about saving the earth with using clean energy but i think you will all be open to a let down

13-01-2007, 09:27	#4
Rashers Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 431	1713 Pearse - Dundalk That service must be one of the most crowded services on the network. Unless the 1650 Connolly-Belfast, which now calls at Dundalk, relieves some of the pressure off the 1713 service, I think stopping the 1713 at any more stations would just make things worse. It might mean that Dundalk/Drogheda passengers would simply not get on the service at Connolly. I would like to see some northbound services terminate at the likes of Skerries (which has a working siding), and head back into town (possibly empty, or as an express) for the evening peak to relieve some of the pressure. The 1707 ex Connolly terminates at Balbriggan @ 1745. This forms the 1807 Balbriggan to Pearse arriving it at 18.49. If they did something similar with an earlier service, say around 1650 ex Connolly (I know it would clash with the Belfast Enterprise), and cut the turnaround time (from the exisiting 22 mins to 5 mins), this could lead to the service arriving back into Pearse @ 18.15, which catches the tail end of the evening peak. It's the usual supply situation - A Pearse to Drogheda service is 50% empty by Balbriggan (note: this may still mean every seat is taken). If you terminated this service there, ran it back into town, he might help relieve the overcrowding on the peak services. However, I think on this one, IE are in a bit of a no win situation. Until someone can press IE to extend the DART to Balbriggan, ahead of the interconnector being built, this problem will only worsen.

13-01-2007, 10:14	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The 17:13 is already so overcrowed that IE added a few years back the 17:07 which does call at Rush & Lusk as well as Donabate. So not really a issue if a train is already full to the point its horribly overcrowded it would result in a even worse experience for the 1250 on that train, given a separate train is provided no justification can be made since it would be contrary to the passenger interest Trains are already overcrowded and short running of train doesn't help since Ballbriggan is the turnback you can't get the train back in time to make another useful trip The only othernorthern line outbound trains which don't call at Rush and Lusk can't call since there is a enterprise talling them or you could stop everywhere and park in Skerries for 10 minutes to allow the enterprise to pass, thats 2 out 25+ trains making 3 in total Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 13-01-2007 at 10:24.

13-01-2007, 16:28	#6
stanley New to the board Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 13	Re Northern route Could you explain to me what differance you all hope the DART will give.on the northern line. At present the line is similar to Connolly-Pearse it is fast runnig out of space and also look athe kildare route they now need a seconftrack. Second and I am open to correction.But the last time i looked the power for a dart it came from the roof throught the OHLE with the rail car it came from an engine under the carriage.No major jump in space on board.Yes i hear all the debate about saving the earth with using clean energy but i think you will all be open to a let down

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12-01-2007, 22:25	#2
packetswitch Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 216	What's the problem? The three trains in question all go non-stop to Skerries after leaving Connolly. Surely it's OK for some trains to go non-stop and some to call at each station? Limited-stop services are important in driving demand to more distant locations, as it gives (or should give!) a more favourable journey time...especially on slow-to-stop-and-start-again DMUs I don't know the recent population increases around Rush and Lusk too well but it seems that just adding the population of two towns and assuming that should mean better service is a little imprecise when it comes to setting timetables. Passenger demand, not to mention the catchment area of the station (i.e. 5000 people in a town that extends a square mile from a station is different to 5000 people spread over ten square miles!) would be an issue here. The fact that the station is called "Rush and Lusk" and the census areas of the towns of Rush and Lusk add to a certain number doesn't, in and of itself, mean that there is enough demand to justify the change...IÉ says that Rush town is 2 miles from the station, so it's optimistic naming anyway... On the other hand, the 1713 does stop at all stations on Saturdays so maybe that one could try an all-stop service on weekdays and see what impact it has? Surely worth a try?

13-01-2007, 04:40	#3
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	Of note, "nobody" lives at Rush-Lusk Station whereas Skerries Station, actually is in Skerries.