Insufficient Number of Luas Ticket Agents

[Urban_Form]

Since weekly/monthly Luas tickets are cheaper at newsagents than those purchased at the ticket machines I just can't understand why there are so few shops around the city that sell them.

For example at Charlemont there is a Centra round the corner towards Harcourt Street that should sell them but don't. Another example would be Rialto where there is a Centra at Rialto roundabout and a Mace at the rear entrance to St Jame's Hospital that should sell them but don't. There are no shops on O'Connell Street that sell them. All of these places are within the catchment area of nearby Luas-stops and are just a few of many examples I can think of. maybe I'm a skank in wanting to save a few euro but if you're using it every week it adds up. Am I the only person that finds this seriously frustrating and inconvenient?

Is the onus is on the Luas operators to authorise such ticket agents or does it falls down on the newsagents to approach Connex?

What's more, none of the shops I know that sell them actually have any signs outside to say so. Whereas Dublin Bus ticket agents have visible signage Luas agents have nothing. Wouldn't it also reduce queues at ticket vending machines at the Luas Stops to advertise the fact that they're available elsewhere at cheaper prices?

Unless anyone knows what the story is with this I might write to Connex about it and get back to you all with a response. I may also get them to refund me a bus ticket I had to buy one time when my Luas broke down while I'm at it.

[Mark Gleeson]

As far as I know any retailer can sell the tickets, but unlike Dublin Bus they must install (I assume at there cost) a lump of equipment behind the counter to handle validation of tickets. There does not appear to be a restriction on multiple vendors at one stop, Tallaght has three.

Its a commerical issue so its the RPA not Veolia.

Harcourt News on Harcourt Rd is listed as sales agent, there is a shop across the road from Abbey Street stop which sells them same goes for Jervis. Londis on O'Connell Street is listed as a agent

Dublin Bus agents will also sell the combined Luas and Bus tickets but they must be used on a bus before travelling on Luas. The ticket machines offer a wider range of tickets anyway.

Real point is the smart card ticketing system should have been fully up and running ages ago which would have solved the whole problem. RPA dropped the ball there

[Urban_Form]

It wouldn't be so bad if you could choose the date from which your ticket is valid from, but the annoying part is that when you're buying your ticket it's only ever valid from the date of purchase.

First thing in the morning rushing for work the day after my ticket expires - there's no chance I'm adding an extra 10 to 15 minutes on my journey time going out of my way for a ticket agent.

[Garrett]

Urban Form, I understand exactly what you mean. Tickets have always annoyed me when I come home and have to use the bus/train/Luas. I once complained about Luas tickets on the old forum but I feel that very few at P11 share my views. Maybe I'm wrong, but same-day validation on purchase just seems crazy and pure illogical. And don't get me started on return tickets...!
As for Mark's comment about the smart card solving the problem, I'm very dissappointed to hear him say that. The smart card, as far as I've seen, is a glorified bank card where Connex is the bank and the validators are the ATMs, except that the bank keeps the cash!. Believe it or not, as Mark well knows, these fundamental "problems" were solved over 50 years ago on many European city networks, using only paper tickets and some ingenuity. The smart card can really be an amazingly useful technology when used properly. But it is not the smart card that solves problems! It helps, agreed, but the fundamentals of good ticketing and fare structuring do not require smart cards, or any fancy technology for that matter.

[Mark Gleeson]

We have numerous complaints about the through ticketing problem on both side IE to RPA and RPA to IE and that has been discussed face to face with both parties and IE have said yes to a minor but important change strangely I can't recall anything on the ticket agents bar the rather stupid validation issue, it on the list now following yesterdays post

The OP was not aware of the fact there is an agent on O'Connell Street, there are agents out there that many are not aware of. What would be expected is that more agents would come on line with time which hasn't happened, the RPA owned retail unit in Smithfield stop is still not open for example we don't know why

The RPA have well and truly screwed up the smart card system, if you look at London thats how it should work it can handle daily and weekly ticket on the fly automatically based on usage thus avoiding the current problem where people don't buy weekly and monthly tickets since they are fearful they might not use them. You always get the best deal in London since it managed by people who know and its all done in the background you can't get that with paper tickets. The Luas ticket machines can actually issue the smart cards but again you won't see that feature used.

The European model is based on validating the ticket with a simple date/time stamp typically on the tram itself. That model doesn't work when faced with Dublin Bus or IE who are mag stripe (and DB and IE carry way more than Luas so they ain't changing), thence the serious problems in the implementation. IE want exit validation (accepted standard in mass transit) which leaves you with only mag stripe or smartcards as options, mag stripe cant hack it as a stored value card since they wear out. You can get a lot of mileage out of mag stripe but it can't do the value stored value thing and other clever things.

If tomorrow morning we had a zonal system took all the turnstiles out and the DoT coughed up the cash to make it work we could be like Munich but IE have gone heavy into turnstiles which makes it impossible. And the CIE group of companies are obsessed with revenue collection and protection since they need the money. We have a history a pre-existing setup and lack the discipline of our European neighbours, fare evasion is rife on Luas despite what you might think, I've never had my ticket checked and only once saw an offical on tram on duty once, peak time its effectively free if you are less than honest

The only solution which can bridge the gap is the smartcard solution and we where supposed to have it years ago and if we had we would be sorted on all fronts but due to a combination of lack of imagination from the RPA the Luas implementation is overly simplistic and fails to include basic features like you get in London add in Dublin Bus who quite rightly as the largest operator want it to handle there needs not those the RPA say they need throw in the DoT who won't bankroll it and you have a mess

So we now have the entire fleet of Dublin Bus fitted with smartcard kit which lies idle a smart card implementation on Luas so lacking in functionality and the passenger stuck in the middle with a DoT who well know that they will have to bear the cost in terms of passenger cost saving, its not Dublin Bus its not the RPA it plain can't and won't happen until the cash is made available

We have encountered severe resistance in the RPA to increasing the range of tickets primarily with IE. I'm convinced the equipment needed at the retailer is at there expense and will be scraped the day smartcard goes live. You could at some expense tweak the retailer kit to issue tickets for any given date in the future but you would always have to nominate a day.

The RPA's primary excuse in not changing the system on the TVM's is cost and more to the point not having any source of cash to pay for such small works that includes basics like signage and plenty of that is missing

Luas and Bus tickets are available through the extensive Dublin Bus network and those become valid from the date of first use on the bus and must be used on the bus first

[Urban_Form]

Even if I could somehow use my smartcard as a weekly ticket I would be happy, but for some reason beyond my understanding it's not possible.

After my initial post, and having checked the Luas website I can see that there actually is a ticket agent on O'Connell Street so I stand corrected. The issue is that there is only one, yet there are so many convenience stores on O'Connell Street all of which are just as close to the Luas as eachother that don't sell them.

Proper signage such as that used for Dublin Bus ticket agents or mobile top-up agents would help big time in my opinion since it saves me walking into the shop, queuing for assistance and asking if they're sold there. The alternative; having to memorise the information off the Luas website regarding locations for ticket agents is equally frustrating.

To be perfectly honest I often resort to free-loading on the Luas as a very last resort if I cannot get a ticket, and until some degree of convenience is introduced to the whole area of ticketing I'm not going to stop having mastered all the tricks. Surely as a regular Luas user this is my right? I might actually write to Connex about this because I prefer never to moan anywhere other than where it counts; the Luas operators in this case.

The issue of zoning leads on naturally really - I cannot believe that zoning is fixed as opposed to relative from where you're travelling with Luas. IE are just as bad really - once I travelled from the Enterprise service into Dublin and changed for a train to Drumcondra assuming it's no extra cost since that's the case for going to Pearse or Tara (both of which are only one or two stops away). So imagine my surprise when on the return journey from Drumcondra on different occasion the difference in the price of the fare was over €3

[Mark Gleeson]

One of the things about the Luas stops is many are distant from a shop to serve them, I'm thinking Miltown, Red Cow, Museum etc. In reality the problem really is the fact that if you find a ticket agent you get a discount compared to the TVM bought ticket and given the small number you are being discriminated against.

The ideal situation is that you have a smartcard and based on your specific usage applies the best value ticket to your account given your travel, so after a few trips on the same day it would apply a unlimited one day ticket and thence 3 day weekly monthly etc all on the fly in the background. This has not been implemented on the Luas despite being the only real benefit smartcard ticketing can bring over classic paper tickets. You can't top up your smartcard online or access any info about it online in Dublin despite being basic features

You can do the zonal thing with old fashioned mag stripe but you can't do the clever personallised fares and one of the biggest reasons people don't get weekly and monthly tickets is they fear they won't use them enough to get value or indeed don't travel enough. In that case the whole agent thing is no longer needed and the validity problem is sorted. After all the TVM's can issue smart cards if someone made the tweak, you can get a smart card online by phone or from the limited agent network and once the full smartcard things hits you can add all Dublin Bus agents, all IE stations on as well

A little known fact is that Irish Rail monthly tickets can be bought online http://www.ticketmaster.ie/partners/...rail_info.html no one else does

All ticketing matters, fares and so on are the RPA's problem its got zlich to do with Veolia Transport. We are still looking for basic signage at/to Luas stops, no progress there so what hope for signs at ticket agents?? We have dicussed signage at stops with the RPA and while the local maps are a nice touch have a look at Connolly where there is no sign to indicate where Connolly station is, still waiting but to be fair they agreed that is was something that should be done, Irish Rail try to make excuses and dodge the issue

And if you are doing Drumcondra Belfast its cheaper under some conditions to buy two separate tickets, Drumcondra currently falls outside the definition of city centre which hopefully will change when the DTA try to sort the mess out