[article] Iarnrod Eireann urged to reopen tunnel

Gary · 11-05-2007, 12:21

Would if effect Capacity that much at rush hour to have 3/4 trains go from Dun Laoire to Kildare?

There must a good number of people drive from their home in Kildare to work in areas south of Pearse as there's no single form of transport to get them there.

Mark Gleeson · 11-05-2007, 12:25

No space south of Pearse for any extra trains, its already at its limit, no extra trains to run such a service exist

Gary · 11-05-2007, 13:01

Would there ever be a point in the future there would be capacity south of Pearse to allow Dun Laoighaire to Kildare via improved signalling rearrange current schedule etc?

Out of curiousity how far a walk is it from the Luas stop at Heuston to the PPT platform?

Colm Donoghue · 11-05-2007, 13:20

half a mile or ~800m

kevin · 11-05-2007, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmd

half a mile or ~800m

When they used platform 10 during the construction of platforms 6, 7 & 8 they ran buses between it and the main station.

kevin

Gary · 11-05-2007, 14:25

What do you reckon the time difference would be to say Connolly by PPT versus normal stop at Heuston and Luas to Connolly?

Would be very handy for the airport/ industrial estates around Santry for Kidare passengers if DB could co-ordinate a bus service around the train. That is until Metro comes along and makes life a lot easier again!

Mark Gleeson · 11-05-2007, 14:26

There are some ground rules:

1. Any service which does use the tunnel, must be in addition to those currently scheduled

Why, as not to negatively effect those happy with Heuston, we will call them the Jervisites not forgetting those looking for a intercity connection

2. Any service which does run through the tunnel must operate via the Drumcondra line and serve Drumcondra

Why, rebuilding Glasnevin Junction is too expensive and not worth the little benefit it offers. Stop in Drumcondra enhances access to Croke Park, and north city with excellent bus interchange

3. Any train which operates through the tunnel cannot do so at the price of the cancellation of a service elsewhere.

Why, removal of an established and busy service isn't in the passenger interest

4. The only realistic option is Docklands

Why, space in Connolly doesn't exist at peak times.

paddyb180285 · 11-05-2007, 15:17

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Here is an interesting picture of an A39 hauled train at Dalkey(my local station) coming from Hueston.It is on route to Wicklow as it can be seen in the next picture pulling up at Kilcoole at a later stage.

The point I'm trying to make is that IE could operate extra services from the likes of Galway/Athlone to Gorey/Rosslare via the Phoenix Park Tunnel (Phunnel as one of you called it).Assuming it called at all stations to Hueston it could then call at Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse, Grand Canal Dock, Lansdowne Rd, Sydney Parade, Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey, Bray and all stations to Gorey.Therefore they would act as EXTRA Galway services, Dublin Express Services and Gorey bound services to the lack thereof, benefitting a huge percentage of people.

The Mark IV Intercity services and 22000 Intercity services are supposed to be replacing their predecessors.Instead they could put the old units through refurbishment/maintenance like the LHB DART stock so that the spare units could be used on lines where there is still a lack of service. The idea of this would be to balance the amount of services throughout the network.

The interconnector could be used aswel as the Phoenix Park Tunnel acting like an M50 for train services thereby forming an irregular circular line around the city.There is a site which covers this philosophy in greater detail and here is the URL:"http://www.darganproject.com/index_files/Page322.htm". Here are a few Ideas: (Galway-Heuston-Interconnector-Belfast), (Galway-Heuston-Phoenix Park Tunnel-Connolly-Rosslare), (Rosslare-Connolly-Belfast), (Cork-Heuston-Interconnector-Sligo), (Cork-Heuston-Phoenix Park Tunnel-Connolly-Gorey). The possibilities are endless.

dowlingm · 11-05-2007, 16:49

Mark G - where would the bottleneck be to determine the maximum number of services, assuming enough rolling stock? Space at Docklands for instance, or the Kildare approaches to Heuston, or somewhere else?

Mark Gleeson · 11-05-2007, 17:04

A lot has changed since 1999 a hell of a lot of extra trains running

The line south of Pearse is running at close to capacity, its really tight and lucky to see a single green signal on the way in from Dun Laoghaire on a bad morning. Level crossings restrict any increase. Terminating in Dun Laoghaire comes with a number of problems, there is only one terminal platform so you got to get in and get out before the next train and in doing so cross oncoming trains. Bray is a mess so don't even think about there

When the third platform in Grand Canal Dock is re-signaled the current northbound line will become a terminus solving a lot of problems currently at Pearse

Currently isn't any room on the approach to Heuston for extra trains until the 4 track happens

The simplest solution is to do a simple piece of trackwork in Docklands and running Kildare local trains to Docklands is consistent with the post interconnector service and it was promised. There is free capacity to run that could manage 3 to 4 trains an hour. Those trains would start from the new turnback platfrom in Hazelhatch

Pearse Kildare after 9pm and all day Sunday is realistic and a reasonable approach

11-05-2007, 15:17	#8
paddyb180285 Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 115	Here is an interesting picture of an A39 hauled train at Dalkey(my local station) coming from Hueston.It is on route to Wicklow as it can be seen in the next picture pulling up at Kilcoole at a later stage. The point I'm trying to make is that IE could operate extra services from the likes of Galway/Athlone to Gorey/Rosslare via the Phoenix Park Tunnel (Phunnel as one of you called it).Assuming it called at all stations to Hueston it could then call at Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse, Grand Canal Dock, Lansdowne Rd, Sydney Parade, Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey, Bray and all stations to Gorey.Therefore they would act as EXTRA Galway services, Dublin Express Services and Gorey bound services to the lack thereof, benefitting a huge percentage of people. The Mark IV Intercity services and 22000 Intercity services are supposed to be replacing their predecessors.Instead they could put the old units through refurbishment/maintenance like the LHB DART stock so that the spare units could be used on lines where there is still a lack of service. The idea of this would be to balance the amount of services throughout the network. The interconnector could be used aswel as the Phoenix Park Tunnel acting like an M50 for train services thereby forming an irregular circular line around the city.There is a site which covers this philosophy in greater detail and here is the URL:"http://www.darganproject.com/index_files/Page322.htm". Here are a few Ideas: (Galway-Heuston-Interconnector-Belfast), (Galway-Heuston-Phoenix Park Tunnel-Connolly-Rosslare), (Rosslare-Connolly-Belfast), (Cork-Heuston-Interconnector-Sligo), (Cork-Heuston-Phoenix Park Tunnel-Connolly-Gorey). The possibilities are endless. Last edited by paddyb180285 : 11-05-2007 at 15:19.

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11-05-2007, 12:21	#1
Gary Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 71	Would if effect Capacity that much at rush hour to have 3/4 trains go from Dun Laoire to Kildare? There must a good number of people drive from their home in Kildare to work in areas south of Pearse as there's no single form of transport to get them there.

11-05-2007, 12:25	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	No space south of Pearse for any extra trains, its already at its limit, no extra trains to run such a service exist

11-05-2007, 13:01	#3
Gary Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 71	Would there ever be a point in the future there would be capacity south of Pearse to allow Dun Laoighaire to Kildare via improved signalling rearrange current schedule etc? Out of curiousity how far a walk is it from the Luas stop at Heuston to the PPT platform?

11-05-2007, 13:20	#4
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	half a mile or ~800m

11-05-2007, 14:25	#6
Gary Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 71	What do you reckon the time difference would be to say Connolly by PPT versus normal stop at Heuston and Luas to Connolly? Would be very handy for the airport/ industrial estates around Santry for Kidare passengers if DB could co-ordinate a bus service around the train. That is until Metro comes along and makes life a lot easier again!

11-05-2007, 14:26	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	There are some ground rules: 1. Any service which does use the tunnel, must be in addition to those currently scheduled Why, as not to negatively effect those happy with Heuston, we will call them the Jervisites not forgetting those looking for a intercity connection 2. Any service which does run through the tunnel must operate via the Drumcondra line and serve Drumcondra Why, rebuilding Glasnevin Junction is too expensive and not worth the little benefit it offers. Stop in Drumcondra enhances access to Croke Park, and north city with excellent bus interchange 3. Any train which operates through the tunnel cannot do so at the price of the cancellation of a service elsewhere. Why, removal of an established and busy service isn't in the passenger interest 4. The only realistic option is Docklands Why, space in Connolly doesn't exist at peak times.

11-05-2007, 16:49	#9
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	Mark G - where would the bottleneck be to determine the maximum number of services, assuming enough rolling stock? Space at Docklands for instance, or the Kildare approaches to Heuston, or somewhere else?

11-05-2007, 17:04	#10
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	A lot has changed since 1999 a hell of a lot of extra trains running The line south of Pearse is running at close to capacity, its really tight and lucky to see a single green signal on the way in from Dun Laoghaire on a bad morning. Level crossings restrict any increase. Terminating in Dun Laoghaire comes with a number of problems, there is only one terminal platform so you got to get in and get out before the next train and in doing so cross oncoming trains. Bray is a mess so don't even think about there When the third platform in Grand Canal Dock is re-signaled the current northbound line will become a terminus solving a lot of problems currently at Pearse Currently isn't any room on the approach to Heuston for extra trains until the 4 track happens The simplest solution is to do a simple piece of trackwork in Docklands and running Kildare local trains to Docklands is consistent with the post interconnector service and it was promised. There is free capacity to run that could manage 3 to 4 trains an hour. Those trains would start from the new turnback platfrom in Hazelhatch Pearse Kildare after 9pm and all day Sunday is realistic and a reasonable approach