Closure on the cards. A wanton throwaway of an asset whose potential is being ignored

[Mark Gleeson]

The goal is to get the the control of these issues away from IE

We the people need to spec the service, not quite as low as the specific times, but who many trains, journey times, connection requirements and so on

We pay for what we get in a transparent manner, just like the UK franchise arrangements service specification. There is political support on that and the idea is something we have discussed with politicians.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The goal is to get the the control of these issues away from IE

We the people need to spec the service, not quite as low as the specific times, but who many trains, journey times, connection requirements and so on

We pay for what we get in a transparent manner, just like the UK franchise arrangements service specification. There is political support on that and the idea is something we have discussed with politicians.

Hammer on the head! If CIE/Irish Rail are not willing to provide the service someone else should be given the choice! We might actually see a decent service then!

[Eddie]

"We the people need to spec the service, not quite as low as the specific times, but who many trains, journey times, connection requirements and so on"

Agreed. Whichever body decided that Dublin to Cork should be hourly, Dublin to Sligo should be 2 hourly etc should also be responsible for dictating frequency of all lines. How long is it since there was more than 1 passenger train daily in each direction on this line?

At least potential closure has focused minds a bit on this and the lack of sense and conflict of simultaneously reopening one line and closing another line.

[Mark Gleeson]

Problem is Irish Rail decide currently, Dublin Cork isn't hourly really, The best comparision is the PSO air routes, a company is required to operate a certain number of flights per week, provide a certain number of seats and provide at least x seats at or below a defined price.

The UK model is based on input from passenger groups, the overall strategic goals and consultants and the rail regulator which sets a set of franchise requirements in terms of what must be provided

Failure to meet those standard results in serious trouble and potential loss of franchise, i.e Connex and most recently GNER who couldn't meet the financial premium (GNER was a profitable franchise and paid a fixed sum per annum to the UK exchequer). Despite these restrictions, any company which can exceed the baseline is free to do so, e.g Chiltern

[purplepanda]

Would I be right is assuming that the costs of installing modern automated level crossing systems on the Rosslare Waterford Limerick Junction / Nenagh lines is one of the reasons why the closure plans have been drawn up to save costs?

I know there are numerous level crossings from on the South Wexford line for example. Not to mention the rail line running through the Wexford Town Quays

Would it be possible for Wexford Council / IE to close at least some of these backroads / level crossings or perhaps to contribute towards modernisation / upgrade budgets?

If the rest of the railway network is being bought up to modern safety standards, then a way to resolve this issue would make the future for these lines more viable, & hopefully provide faster & eventually more frequent services for passengers.

[dowlingm]

What does the NTA contract currently specify with respect to Limerick Junction-Waterford-Rosslare?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

What does the NTA contract currently specify with respect to Limerick Junction-Waterford-Rosslare?

Its in the contract, we are waiting for a copy of that schedule from the NTA. It is not in the public domain, though we have a very good idea what it will look like based on the informal agreements that IE had in the past.

[dowlingm]

I could have sworn there was discussion a while back about some agreement IE had which excluded certain lines and which led us to think IE had left themselves a back door.

[Mark Gleeson]

The current rail safety program was to automate the line from Limerick Junc to Waterford and possibly to Rosslare (it would cost a wopping 2 million extra) Waterford station needs to be totally rebuilt not only the building but all the track and signals, thats potentially a 20-30 million euro job. In theory the whole line from Limerick Junc to Rosslare would require only 1 signalman vs 7 current. There is a committed budget for some of this and some EU money.

Each km of track costs 30-40k per annum to run and that is independent of the number of trains to some degree.

Level crossings are dealt with based on a risk analysis which takes into account the type of crossing, the number of trains and there speed as well as crossing usage both car and foot, so regional lines aren't high on the list. An automatted level crossing is about 700k-1million in cost terms the signalling offers more savings for less outlay and that is why it happens first

[Cllr Joe Ryan]

Originally Posted by purplepanda

Would I be right is assuming that the costs of installing modern automated level crossing systems on the Rosslare Waterford Limerick Junction / Nenagh lines is one of the reasons why the closure plans have been drawn up to save costs?

I know there are numerous level crossings from on the South Wexford line for example. Not to mention the rail line running through the Wexford Town Quays

Would it be possible for Wexford Council / IE to close at least some of these backroads / level crossings or perhaps to contribute towards modernisation / upgrade budgets?

If the rest of the railway network is being bought up to modern safety standards, then a way to resolve this issue would make the future for these lines more viable, & hopefully provide faster & eventually more frequent services for passengers.

Wexford Borough Council have a car park on the Quays for day long parking. Access to the car park is charged to WBC at €50K per annum. I know that that figure is accurate as I voted for it in our annual estimates!
It pays for a person to open and shut the gate as the train passes along the Quay. I dare say that it is quite profitable and may well be indicative of other charges levied to statutory bodies such as local authoroities or harbour boards for access. Much of the land along the Quay on the far side of the railtrack actually belongs to Wexford Harbour Commissioners.
BTW excellent turn out at Wexford O'Hanrahan Station for the first of the protests against closure.

[Sealink]

For my next RailSail trip I am planning to go via the Stena Line route from Fishguard to Rosslare.

Imagine the noise of my jaw hitting the floor, at the news that the last IE service from Rosslare north is at 1755hrs, when the Stena Line and Irish Ferries ships arrive at 1800hrs and 1845hrs respectively, with no service West at all at that time.

Don't they like each other?

[Mark Gleeson]

The morning arrivals have connections to Dublin and Waterford

Irish Ferries arrives 6:45 which connects with the 7:50 to Dublin
Stena arrives 6:15 which connects with the 7:00 to Waterford and 7:50 to Dublin

The evening Waterford - Rosslare service arrives with plently of time for the evening departures

There is no evening connection from Dublin, the 18:30 from Connolly has departed at 18:30-18:35 since at least the 1970's and arrives in Rosslare earlier now than ever. The lack of connection there is a matter for the ferry companies not IE

[dowlingm]

Well, there IS a train standing on Rosslare platform as of 1835 - it just doesn't go anywhere. 25 minutes away in Wexford, a train departs north at 1930. If the Waterford train shuttled north to Wexford and back it would also bring passengers arriving on the 1904 into Wexford back to Rosslare Strand - giving Rosslare passengers the option of the 1630 rather than waiting for the 1830. It should be possible to get this done now that the CTC project broke the section between Enniscorthy and Rosslare at Wexford.

Unfortunately IE operations can't figure out a way to make the crewing equations line up, gearing their requirements to the Bus Eireann Rosslare-New Ross-Waterford timetable to get crew back to Waterford.

Meanwhile, once IE has given up for the night, BE manages 1930, 2030, 2330, 0130, 0330, 0530...

[Sealink]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The UK model is based on input from passenger groups, the overall strategic goals and consultants and the rail regulator which sets a set of franchise requirements in terms of what must be provided

Failure to meet those standard results in serious trouble and potential loss of franchise, i.e Connex and most recently GNER who couldn't meet the financial premium (GNER was a profitable franchise and paid a fixed sum per annum to the UK exchequer). Despite these restrictions, any company which can exceed the baseline is free to do so, e.g Chiltern

GNER and that poisoned chalice (otherwise known as the UK's flagship railway line/franchise) isn't a good example, as the company that won the franchise after GNER also defaulted. That was National Express East Coast. So now the flagship railway line is back in "public hands" for a year or two. An example that the UK system is by no means perfect, and in fact some here look longingly at IE's integration.

A better example, and a network that more closely mirrors IE is First ScotRail. Some prime routes : Glasgow to Aberdeen, Glasgow to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Aberdeeen etc. An extensive Suburban rail network, and some basket case lines such as Inverness Wick which are well patronised but loss making. Services are stipulated by the Scottish government, and First are paid an amount to run them, with heavy penalties for failure. The Scottish parliament, infuriated by the numerous logo changes, paint jobs and marketing activity initiated by each franchise winner also developed a ScotRail logo - to be used WHOEVER wins the franchise next time.