[13-14/07/2010] Enterprise services

[Mark Gleeson]

Listened to it and its not clear

1. How the scumbags accessed the train is unclear, it was through the offside cab door, which should have been locked

2. After gaining entry the secure luggage area in the control car was emptied. The door between the luggage and first class area is a security door as previously it was used to carry mail

3. The passenger area remained secure. From the video I have a single window in the first class coach/control car was damaged but intact. The secondman side windscreen on the control car had damage from several rocks thrown at it

4. Usual incompetent delivery of information in Connolly, staff standing around not knowing what was going on and a information display saying the train was on time.

5. How the train was brought to a halt in the first place is question the line is in a curve at the point in question so the driver wouldn't have a clear line of sight and certainly wouldn't be able to stop

[karlr42]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Listened to it and its not clear

1. How the scumbags accessed the train is unclear, it was through the offside cab door, which should have been locked

2. After gaining entry the secure luggage area in the control car was emptied. The door between the luggage and first class area is a security door as previously it was used to carry mail

3. The passenger area remained secure. From the video I have a single window in the first class coach/control car was damaged but intact. The secondman side windscreen on the control car had damage from several rocks thrown at it

4. Usual incompetent delivery of information in Connolly, staff standing around not knowing what was going on and a information display saying the train was on time.

5. How the train was brought to a halt in the first place is question the line is in a curve at the point in question so the driver wouldn't have a clear line of sight and certainly wouldn't be able to stop

The RTE report doesn't shed very much more light on it:

The driver stopped the train and the group then set his cab on fire.

The driver locked the doors on the train so the attackers were not able to get onboard. However, they did steal several pieces of luggage.

As regards the offside door, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was unlocked- I often see trains coming out of Pearse with the cab doors for cabs sandwiched in a formation wide open from the driver having changed ends, and the interior cab doors don't seem to be locked either in my experience.

[Kilocharlie]

Perhaps they interfered with the barriers and, if thebarriers failed to close properly, that would have given the driver a caution aspect at the distant signal ?

Was the driver not in that DVT cab where they gained entry?

[Mark Gleeson]

The passenger doors on the train are locked and can be only be unlocked when stationary using a guards key from a coach end control panel or by the driver from the locomotive or control car. They can be opened from outside if you know how

Entry was via the offside control car cab door, where the driver was.

Had it been a signaling stop, the train would have stopped 200m from the crossing.

[chris]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

5. How the train was brought to a halt in the first place is question the line is in a curve at the point in question so the driver wouldn't have a clear line of sight and certainly wouldn't be able to stop

First of all: Christ - is it any wonder I left.

Mark, I understand from the pictures the train was travelling southbound. Is it possible the signal just north of Lurgan stopped the train? It slows every local train to a stop while the barriers come down on the Antrim Road and Lake Street. I've never been sure if it affects the Enterprise in the same way, since I'm never on the Enterprise the whole way from Belfast.

It does seem the barriers were closed correctly.

[ThomasJ]

how many passengers were on this train mark?

Also with regards to the cross-border commitee can this issue be raised given there is constant disruption in lurgan before yesterdays incident

Whats the next move for passengers on that train?

[chris]

http://www.u.tv/News/Trouble-flares-...e-eb091bf4d146

55 passengers

[Mark Gleeson]

RTE quoted 110 on board

If luggage was stolen/damaged a passenger should apply in writing to Translink or Irish Rail under the CIV rules providing evidence that they were onboard and a statement of the loss incurred

http://www.otif.org/pdf_external/e/RU-CIV-1999-e.PDF

The only exclusion I can find in the rules applies to nuclear incidents

[chris]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0713/nor...87053,null,230

Six One said 110

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_...d/10617267.stm

BBC went with 55

Based on the very low number of people on the 11:00 ex Dublin yesterday, I'd say 55 could be the correct figure. Of course, if they can't even get that straight, then how are they going to start compensation..

[ColmmacO]

Was it the locomotive that the people got into? Or the other thing at the front.
I've often seen doors open on loco's leaving connolly.

According to this mornings metro there was people standing on the track which was why the train stopped. Apparently it was a group of scouts who had there luggage taken on the train.
Personally, bar the usual lack of info and customer service, I would be fairly slow to attach blame to the rail companies for this one. It sounds like a fairly crazy occurance, not something you would expect to happen.

[on the move]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Listened to it and its not clear

The Dublin-Belfast train has been hijacked before, but this has to be one of the lowest depths of rail history in Ireland.

I don't care what side of the religious fence people sit on, or how they feel about parades in Northern Ireland. I'm not interested in history lessons or how oppressed they feel, there are not enough words to describe how appalling the incident this week is.

The Enterprise service is one of the rail network's best services. The trains are clean, the carriages are comfortable, the service is one of the most reliable in the network. But this is currently a bad time for rail transport in Ireland. Last year, a major viaduct collapsed and suspended services for 3 months, leading to colossal loss of revenues, we're just about to have a line closed, fares are climbing, while competing modes of transport in Ireland are getting faster and cheaper.

No "cause" political or otherwise, would have been advanced or resisted had even more damage occurred this week. Mass murder was miraculously averted, but the individuals responsible should have the full weight of the law thrown at them. There is no room in civilised society for those who indiscriminately terrorise 60 innocent rail passengers for no reason. If they get away with their actions, it's only a matter of time before it happens again on trains or even north-south bus services.

The incident this week had nothing to do with parades, it had nothing to do with politics, it had nothing to do with terrorism. It was vandalism for vandalism's sake. Pure and simple. The only solution is to deploy police forces from both sides of the border on the service around this date in the future, to calm the concerns of passengers. Gardai on the Irish side of the border and the PSNI on the other side. The financial impact is immaterial. Every precaution has to be taken to prevent what happened this week ever happening again.

[ThomasJ]

so we may have an idea of why luggage left the train
http://www.u.tv/News/Rioters-tried-t...1-bcfea086550e

Rioters "tried to firebomb" Lurgan train
Rioters who attacked a train in Lurgan on July 12 were only prevented from firebombing it by a community worker trying to save passengers, it has emerged.

Thursday, 15 July 2010
TAGS: LOCAL NEWS
Footage showed the man throwing luggage from the train - they were actually soaked in petrol and, minutes later, he confronted a man with a five gallon drum of diesel in his hands.

The man - who did not want to be identified - told UTV a rioter wanted to let those on board the train burn.

"I told him there were women and children on the train," he said.

Article Continues
"He (the rioter) said 'Let them burn' - this person was intent on killing everybody on the train with no regard for their lives."

There were 55 passengers of all ages on the Dublin-bound Enterprise train when it was surrounded by a mob who blocked its path, on the line close to the Kilwilkie estate - a dissident republican stronghold.

The community worker described seeing one woman who "just looked terrified".

The passengers, staff and the driver had locked themselves in a carriage. They were so terrified the rioters would board the train, the community worker had to persuade them he was on their side before he could gain access to where they were.

Speaking about those responsible, the man said: "They were quite willing to kill anybody on board. No regard for human life whatsoever.

"There were people who were completely innocent. There were women and children. People had no regard for life whatsoever."

He managed to convince the driver to move the train and stayed with him until it reached Portadown.

Sinn Fein representative for the area John O'Dowd said there was no doubt dissident republicans were behind it.

"Some of the known faces in the area were there.

"I think that people were dragged into situations once the trouble flared who may not have sympathies with the dissidents."

The DUP's Stephen Moutray added: "But for the work of a community worker, there could have been mass murder on the railway line and not for the first time."

© UTV News

backing this up a comment on the bbc news website
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern+ireland-10627977

My two adult daughters and I were passengers on board the 1610 train from Belfast to Dublin on Monday. Just south of Belfast, the train was stopped by people blocking the tracks. We didn't know this initially, but started to wonder what was happening as we saw a small crowd of people gathering on either side of the tracks and looking toward the front of the train. Two men passed through our car with grease-stained hands and arms (and some said with blood on their hands, but I didn't see that). One was talking on a phone, saying that the train had been hijacked. By this time, the train had begun moving again. As we passed the crossing where people were gathered, we saw young men wearing masks over their faces. What we did not see at any time was any sign of a police presence. Shortly after the train resumed moving, a conductor passed through our car and told me that protesters had thrown bricks and petrol bombs at the engine, that the two men that passed through our car were members of the community who had jumped into the fray to disarm the situation, that the train was under the control of the railway, and that we were safe. At the next station, when we left the train, we passed the engine. Half of the front windshield was shattered in several places, one side window was also shattered, the window of the door to enter the engine was completely broken out, there were signs of fire inside the cab, and scorching on the front of the engine.

James Grant, Belfast

100% agreement with on the move great post, by the sounds of things, what we have heard today sounds genuine based on what irish rail have said and a major "mass murder" event has been averted

[dowlingm]

I think that IE and NIR should consider suspending the Enterprise as a through service. Every time these thugs disrupt the service it must cost a mint of money and disruption to the timetable.

[ThomasJ]

Given the stories that have come out over the past few days, how urgent is a risk analysis on lurgan required?

There are too many "security alerts" in this area. A major incident was,narrowly averted, do we hope tht this doesnt happen again or take action?

Theres a possability this could affect passenger numbers on the enterprise.

[on the move]

You take action to prevent it happening again. "Hoping" that it doesn't happen again is not an option. FFS, even Al Qaida don't pull a stunt like what happened on that train last week, and a fortune is spent around the world to try to deter them.

[ThomasJ]

Agreed, that is my point (although badly put) we cannot wait for a major disaster to take place to try to resolve it, too many lessons have been learnt this way.

As a rail passenger i decided not to take a rail trip up north because of this