Submission to the NTA about Waterford-Rosslare?

[Alan French]

It's not a red herring. I've no objection to the idea of through services between Rosslare and Cork (as there were until 1973). But the idea of running through services between Rosslare and Galway comes as a consequence of trying to give each part of this line a decent service - preferably every two hours.

Look at it this way. A train arrives at Limerick Junction from Waterford or Rosslare, and another train of the same type and length arrives from Limerick or Galway. Each feeds passengers into trains going both ways on the Dublin-Cork line. Then each returns where it came from.

But if instead each of these trains were to continue "straight ahead" instead of turning back, it would give an improved service at no extra cost, by eliminating a change for passengers going Waterford-Limerick or beyond. Even if few people want to go from Rosslare to Galway, passengers from Tipperary to Limerick will certainly be more encouraged to travel if there is no change at the Junction.

So it's a consequence of trying to give each part of the line a decent service - that's where we start. Now, if it turns out that there are enough passengers for Cork (or the Kerry direction), then a through run may be justified. This means an extra run by a railcar on the Limerick Junction-Cork section. But we are talking about running several trains per day, so it is possible to send some trains to Cork and others to Galway. Is it mainly the boat trains that you have in mind, or some other time of day?

[corktina]

Its a Red Herring (oh no,this is gettin zooologiogal...) because the WRC is a White Elephant and would not help the case of the Rosslare line to be lumped in with it.

[comcor]

If you linked Rosslare to Cork and you brought the Rosslare-Limerick Junction line up to the standard of the Cork-Dublin line and you only stopped 3 or 4 times (which sort of defeats the purpose of providing service on it), it would still take over three hours. The investment required to get it to that level would be pretty huge as well.

The major diversion means rail could never really compete with the bus.

At least a Rosslare-Waterford-Limerick-Galway service is rougly in a straight line.

[corktina]

but the Limerick to Galway bit is fatally flawed in that it has had a lot of cash invested in it (and surely isnt likely to get more one hopes!) but is slower than the road (by a lot) and dearer than the Bus.(by a lot). I cant see a private operator wanting to take on this bit whereas a reliable and sensible service to and from a Ferry Port served by 2 services to Wales and one to France ( I think ) might have a hope of improvement. It really would make a nice self-contained package for an operator if the Dublin and Waterford services were included (OK if you insist,extended to Limerick Junc to connect to Cork na d Limerick/Galway)

[Traincustomer]

Hi, yes one main route to Cherbourg year-round (served by both Irish Ferries and Celtic Link) plus seasonal route to Roscoff (Irish Ferries).

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by corktina

but the Limerick to Galway bit is fatally flawed in that it has had a lot of cash invested in it (and surely isnt likely to get more one hopes!) but is slower than the road (by a lot) and dearer than the Bus.(by a lot).

Well you can either pay a large subsidy to an inefficient operator or a smaller subsidy to an efficient operator.

[corktina]

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

Well you can either pay a large subsidy to an inefficient operator or a smaller subsidy to an efficient operator.

not sure quite what you mean...presumably you are advocating Bus Eireann over IE? Id wager a private company wqould be more efficent than either.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by corktina

not sure quite what you mean...presumably you are advocating Bus Eireann over IE? Id wager a private company wqould be more efficent than either.

Not necessarily. BÉ and IÉ provide different services.

However, part of the problem at hand is that the convenience and overall value of a service to the passenger is overlooked in planning that service. So we have Craughwell with 10 services per day, when it might have been better to provide Oranmore with 28 services per day for almost identical costs (the only cost would be the extra fuel and wear & tear in braking and accelerating). It would require the exact same number of trains and staff and the same construction costs. However, fare income would be much more substantial

Likewise, in south Wexford, there are a dozen or so level crossing gate keepers (and all sorts or permanent way staff) who serve a total of 2 trains a day. The marginal cost of providing a much increased service is slight - its just driver and train time.

Now, if Galway-Limerick, Limerick-Limerick Junction, Limerick Junction-Waterford and Waterford-Rosslare Harbour/Wexford services were operated in such a fashion that resources could be used a bit more efficiently, e.g. reducing the lay-over times mid-route, that would be a gain. Offering a more frequent and faster service would be a further gain, increasing fare income. However, Irish Rail don't seem to be capable of these improvements. Other operators do seem to be capable.

If the operation of a route or routes was put out to tender and Irish Rail say they will do it for X and another operator say they will do the same or better service for X-Y, then surely we should go for the other operator. Of course, given that the other operator might have overhead costs spread over a small operation might mitigate against this and they might be more expensive.

[CorkALVIN]

Originally Posted by Alan French

It's not a red herring. I've no objection to the idea of through services between Rosslare and Cork (as there were until 1973). But the idea of running through services between Rosslare and Galway comes as a consequence of trying to give each part of this line a decent service - preferably every two hours.

Look at it this way. A train arrives at Limerick Junction from Waterford or Rosslare, and another train of the same type and length arrives from Limerick or Galway. Each feeds passengers into trains going both ways on the Dublin-Cork line. Then each returns where it came from.

But if instead each of these trains were to continue "straight ahead" instead of turning back, it would give an improved service at no extra cost, by eliminating a change for passengers going Waterford-Limerick or beyond. Even if few people want to go from Rosslare to Galway, passengers from Tipperary to Limerick will certainly be more encouraged to travel if there is no change at the Junction.

So it's a consequence of trying to give each part of the line a decent service - that's where we start. Now, if it turns out that there are enough passengers for Cork (or the Kerry direction), then a through run may be justified. This means an extra run by a railcar on the Limerick Junction-Cork section. But we are talking about running several trains per day, so it is possible to send some trains to Cork and others to Galway. Is it mainly the boat trains that you have in mind, or some other time of day?

Surely, by far and away the most sensible way to restore a decent service-pattern on the Waterford-Rosslare Route would be to extend the existing Dublin-Waterford trains onwards to Rosslare, or Dublin-Rosslare services on to Waterford; extending this to its logical conclusion, trains could run in a big loop Connolly-Rosslare-Waterford-Heuston, even looping between Connolly and Heuston via the Phoenix Park tunnel; I could see IE generating a whole lot more passenger traffic from the same number of railcars and staff (or even less) by doing it this way; also, considering the regular disruptions to the Connolly-Rosslare route due to DART maintenance, an alternative Rosslare Route via Waterford should be a given.