Limerick Junction Waterford Engineering Works

corktina · 10-09-2010, 11:05

I would imagine that pathing a freight train (were there any) would be extremely difficult now even with the current timetable.

I wonder at the future of this line now, a scorched earth policy being pursued and the econmies of scale at the Waterford end have presumably disimproved with closure of the Rosslare line
Are the services on this line any way busy?

Mark Gleeson · 10-09-2010, 11:19

Given there are only 3 trains a day currently freight isn't a problem

There is simply no point wasting money on infrastructure we don't need or use. Based on the rust on the rails in Tipperary its doubtful the loop has been used in several months. It wouldn't allow a freight service to fit in a 2 hourly service anyways.

dowlingm · 10-09-2010, 13:48

From a passenger point of view, I can only hope that the service post-resignal will not only be at full 50mph line speed rather than the 40 that seems to be currently the case but that the Waterford-LJ-Limerick morning rotation will facilitate Tipp/Cahir/Clonmel commuters to Limerick rather than being slaved to the Dublin-Cork timetable as at present.

Thomas Ralph · 10-09-2010, 14:23

Don't be silly, everyone knows that all railway journeys in Ireland are to or from Dublin

Fergal · 10-09-2010, 15:23

Is there any likelihood that Limerick Junction will get a proper redesign with another platform, so that Dublin - Cork and Cork - Dublin trains can call together, along being able to run a direct Limerick - Waterford service, subsuming the Limerick -Limerick Junction shuttle?

dowlingm · 10-09-2010, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergal

Is there any likelihood that Limerick Junction will get a proper redesign with another platform, so that Dublin - Cork and Cork - Dublin trains can call together, along being able to run a direct Limerick - Waterford service, subsuming the Limerick -Limerick Junction shuttle?

There is supposed to be an East platform to serve the Dublin Cork line but no sign of a planning app yet - last one I can see on ePlan is for the car park. Whether any effort will be made to minimise conflict holds by allowing trains from Waterford direction to unload on the east side of the line via a halt and walkway to the Dublin-Cork east side remains to be seen. A direct curve towards Thurles would be a nice idea too but we mustn't lose the run of ourselves

Alan French · 10-09-2010, 19:17

That's good news and bad news. It's good that there will be scope for running a 2-hourly clock-face service. The difficulty is that the trains on the Dublin-Cork line serve the Junction at different times: 30-34 minutes past the hour coming from Cork, and 44-52 the other way. A train could leave Clonmel at 40 past the previous hour and connect with both of these; then if it (or more properly, the train that has arrived from Limerick) left at 50, which is tight, it would get to Clonmel at 40 past the following hour. It's all very tight.

Every minute that this can be speeded up will be needed. The two main line trains need to be brought closer together in time; to do this properly will need a new platform at the Junction.

The bad news is that there is no space for anything else. When writing for the timetable consultation, I treated the 2-hourly service as the bottom line. We will need capacity, not just for freight, but for extra trains of all sorts. What if Tipperary sends a team to Croke Park? I've just read in another thread about extra trains on the Midleton line because of a local event. You couldn't do this on the Suir valley line without extra loops.

I understand Mark's point about not having infrastrucure that needs maintenance if it's rarely used. That would be fine if the management culture at IR were such that, on finding potential new business (passenger or freight), the response was to restore the missing trackwork instantly without no hesitation or complaint about cost. But over the years I have seen so much inflexibility built into the network, and it's always used as a reason not to introduce new traffic.

The closure of the old platform 3 at Limerick Junction is an example. The 2007 timetable didn't need it, so they took it away. This year we need it badly, but do they restore it without further ado?

I wouldn't call connecting with the mainline trains being "slaved" to them. It's about sensible connections. In the timetable consultation I described how each line should have a 2-hourly clock-face service, but that exceptions may have to be made at commuting times. There's another reason for having more than the minimum number of crossing loops.

corktina · 10-09-2010, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Given there are only 3 trains a day currently freight isn't a problem

There is simply no point wasting money on infrastructure we don't need or use. Based on the rust on the rails in Tipperary its doubtful the loop has been used in several months. It wouldn't allow a freight service to fit in a 2 hourly service anyways.

three trains a day? what a waste of resources.....

10-09-2010, 11:19	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Given there are only 3 trains a day currently freight isn't a problem There is simply no point wasting money on infrastructure we don't need or use. Based on the rust on the rails in Tipperary its doubtful the loop has been used in several months. It wouldn't allow a freight service to fit in a 2 hourly service anyways. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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10-09-2010, 11:05	#1
corktina Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 47	I would imagine that pathing a freight train (were there any) would be extremely difficult now even with the current timetable. I wonder at the future of this line now, a scorched earth policy being pursued and the econmies of scale at the Waterford end have presumably disimproved with closure of the Rosslare line Are the services on this line any way busy?

10-09-2010, 13:48	#3
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	From a passenger point of view, I can only hope that the service post-resignal will not only be at full 50mph line speed rather than the 40 that seems to be currently the case but that the Waterford-LJ-Limerick morning rotation will facilitate Tipp/Cahir/Clonmel commuters to Limerick rather than being slaved to the Dublin-Cork timetable as at present.

10-09-2010, 14:23	#4
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	Don't be silly, everyone knows that all railway journeys in Ireland are to or from Dublin

10-09-2010, 15:23	#5
Fergal Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 21	Is there any likelihood that Limerick Junction will get a proper redesign with another platform, so that Dublin - Cork and Cork - Dublin trains can call together, along being able to run a direct Limerick - Waterford service, subsuming the Limerick -Limerick Junction shuttle?

10-09-2010, 19:17	#7
Alan French Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 89	That's good news and bad news. It's good that there will be scope for running a 2-hourly clock-face service. The difficulty is that the trains on the Dublin-Cork line serve the Junction at different times: 30-34 minutes past the hour coming from Cork, and 44-52 the other way. A train could leave Clonmel at 40 past the previous hour and connect with both of these; then if it (or more properly, the train that has arrived from Limerick) left at 50, which is tight, it would get to Clonmel at 40 past the following hour. It's all very tight. Every minute that this can be speeded up will be needed. The two main line trains need to be brought closer together in time; to do this properly will need a new platform at the Junction. The bad news is that there is no space for anything else. When writing for the timetable consultation, I treated the 2-hourly service as the bottom line. We will need capacity, not just for freight, but for extra trains of all sorts. What if Tipperary sends a team to Croke Park? I've just read in another thread about extra trains on the Midleton line because of a local event. You couldn't do this on the Suir valley line without extra loops. I understand Mark's point about not having infrastrucure that needs maintenance if it's rarely used. That would be fine if the management culture at IR were such that, on finding potential new business (passenger or freight), the response was to restore the missing trackwork instantly without no hesitation or complaint about cost. But over the years I have seen so much inflexibility built into the network, and it's always used as a reason not to introduce new traffic. The closure of the old platform 3 at Limerick Junction is an example. The 2007 timetable didn't need it, so they took it away. This year we need it badly, but do they restore it without further ado? I wouldn't call connecting with the mainline trains being "slaved" to them. It's about sensible connections. In the timetable consultation I described how each line should have a 2-hourly clock-face service, but that exceptions may have to be made at commuting times. There's another reason for having more than the minimum number of crossing loops.