European Commission Putting Pressure on Goverment to Tender Rail Services

[Jamie2k9]

That won't be their concern - just like the buses, the operator will be paid a fixed fee to operate the services based on what the NTA dictate.

The point been private operators won't want to take loads of free pass holders, what they will be offered will not meet requirements by a long shot. They will want fare paying passengers and not to increase capacity to carry people for free. There is even no data to back up usage on any lines.

Private operators won't be pushovers like IE are.

Paying lump sums will not work on heavy rail, it will work on services such as Luas/Metro and perhaps Dublin commuter because of the volume of customers and the fact that seats are not expected by anybody who uses such services.

Remember it's more acceptable for IE to make losses as they are not profitable companies such as outside operators who are profit focused. We all know if IE was profit focused there would only be 3 or 4 lines left.

[Mark Gleeson]

This is likely to be a fixed price contract operation. The operator doesn't have to carry a single passenger to get paid provided the deliver the agreed service.

Every cent of fare box for PSO services will be handed to the NTA, the NTA set the fares and conditions. The NTA take the fare box risk.

On the other side is the carrot and stick

Bonus payments for beating targets (paid logically enough out of the increase in revenue that will result from a better service)
Heavy fines for failing targets

[Jamie2k9]

This is likely to be a fixed price contract operation. The operator doesn't have to carry a single passenger to get paid provided the deliver the agreed service.

Every cent of fare box for PSO services will be handed to the NTA, the NTA set the fares and conditions. The NTA take the fare box risk.

On the other side is the carrot and stick

Bonus payments for beating targets (paid logically enough out of the increase in revenue that will result from a better service)
Heavy fines for failing targets

Would be a good set up for operators but the taxpayer will still end up taking the hit with possible losses the NTA will make and somebody will have to fill the funding gap.

I am all for competition however I just can't see much savings for the taxpayer which is why I remain skeptical about the plans.

[dowlingm]

Let's say a service is determined by IE to cost 1000 Euro right now (round numbers for simplicity) for which they get 1000 Euro in revenue and subsidy under current arrangements.
Veolia come in and say "we are willing to deliver this for 900 Euro" which represents their estimate that it will cost them 700, providing 200 in profit to the company - as we've so oft noted in discussing these matters, these companies ain't charities.

While the actual figures are clearly different, this amounts to a substantial reduction. What I don't get is this: how does Veolia (for example) get that 300?

The other issue is: while I know there is some PSO/non PSO split within IE right now, is a move to franchising likely to change the landscape for special services such as GAA and concerts?

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

While the actual figures are clearly different, this amounts to a substantial reduction. What I don't get is this: how does Veolia (for example) get that 300?

Staff Costs: I imagine new train crews would not have final salary pensions, and have lower base rates of base pay and PRP.

They may also want to offer more dynamic ticket pricing that maximises revenue. The Irish Rail ticketing website appears very broadbrush, and I doubt it achieves this.

[dowlingm]

Eddie: that scenario involves no transfer of personnel or obligations to the franchisee. The question then becomes what do IE do with the employees who used to work on these services. some might be redeployed to non franchised services but that will only go so far,

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Staff Costs: I imagine new train crews would not have final salary pensions, and have lower base rates of base pay and PRP.

They may also want to offer more dynamic ticket pricing that maximises revenue. The Irish Rail ticketing website appears very broadbrush, and I doubt it achieves this.

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Eddie: that scenario involves no transfer of personnel or obligations to the franchisee. The question then becomes what do IE do with the employees who used to work on these services. some might be redeployed to non franchised services but that will only go so far,

It's not a realistic proposition to expect that there would be completely new staff taken on though, particularly when it comes to drivers.

There would have to be TUPE provisions involved.

It's totally unrealistic to expect that drivers would not transfer and not retain their existing pay and conditions, given how long it takes to train new drivers - it's a specialised job being able to retain appropriate route knowledge.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Eddie: that scenario involves no transfer of personnel or obligations to the franchisee. The question then becomes what do IE do with the employees who used to work on these services. some might be redeployed to non franchised services but that will only go so far,

In a contract for service, all operational staff (may not include some management) that the departing contractor doesn't want to retain would transfer.

It would be different for a contract for goods or works.

[Mark Gleeson]

Irish Rail faces bankruptcy if it loses tender, Government warns
EU Commission wants changes that would open up sector to competitors

State-owned train operator Irish Rail (Iarnród Éireann) is likely to face bankruptcy if it loses the right to run services as a result of proposed changes to the way the EU rail sector is run, the Government has warned.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...arns-1.2305992